Tungsram 12AX7?

[marino2005]

Can someone confirm that this tube is or can be Tungsram ECC83/12AX7?
This is a tube that I bought as NOS Tungsram, but I wasnt able to find any of these tubes labeled with 12AX7. All of them have Tungsram logo and ECC83 below, so I'm interested to find out what this really is. I paid pretty much for this tube to a reputable dealer.
It has the same plate structure as original Tungsram though.

Thanks for help!

Marino

[teefus]

hmm. i'm no expert but i think the one with the arrow in my photo is a tungsram 12ax7. hope this helps.

opps. it might be an rft now that i think about it. there are some tungsram 12ax7's in the photo somewhere. let me look some more.

[zaphod_phil]

Can someone confirm that this tube is or can be Tungsram ECC83/12AX7? This is a tube that I bought as NOS Tungsram, but I wasnt able to find any of these tubes labeled with 12AX7. All of them have Tungsram logo and ECC83 below, so I'm interested to find out what this really is.

Sounds perfect! ECC83 is just the European name for a 12AX7A. So you've got exactly what you want.

[marino2005]

Thanx for comments!

I know that 12AX7 equals ECC83, I just noticed that ALL Tungsram tubes
have Tungsram logo and ECC83 below. This is because Tungsram is Hungarian company. My tube has 12AX7 only on the glass.
This is why I'm confused. But since the plate structure seems identical to those on other Tungsram tube photos, and the fact that it sounds great,
I'm pretty sure I got what I wanted and paid for.

Marin

[dotfret]

Tungsram was not originally Hungarian (unless you can relocate Tottenham) - it was a British company that decided to outsource before it was quickly taken over by Thorn and incorporated into Mullard. All the Tungsram designs are the same as the Philips designs - that is why they have a good rep.

[maglemer]

The Tungsrams are easily identified through that little shiny metal piece, with a sign stamped on it, that is attached to the plate.

BTW, I remember I read somewhere that the Tungsram plant was originally set up by Tung-Sol and Osram-Marconi. Anyone who knows about that?

[drgonzo2]

Take a close look for etched production codes. Having checked my stash, about 45% of my Tungsrams carry the Blackburn Mullard "B", maybe 25% the Marconi Chelmsford reversed"3". The rest were unmarked, probably eastern european.

That said, the eastern ones seem to be made to the same design (plate/getter) as the U.K production - didn't Mullard help set up the Tesla factory?

[zaphod_phil]

I must take a closer look at the pair of Tungsram ECL86s I have....

BTW, I remember I read somewhere that the Tungsram plant was originally set up by Tung-Sol and Osram-Marconi. Anyone who knows about that?

Yes, that's what I've heard as well.

[marino2005]

This is what I can see on my Tungsram:

On the glass: 12AX7. I can't tell was there something else cause this sign is a bit etched.
Inside the glass between and above plates: "53" on a small piece of metal
Underneath, where the connections are: "3" engraved in glass in space between pins 1 and 9.

Thats it.

[dotfret]

We have to be clear here, to distinguish English Tungsram from Hungarian Tungsram. I have three NOS ECC83 English Tungsram, and they all carry Blackburn (B) codes. Strangely, I see more old ECC83 with J codes (Tottenham factory after Mullard bought it) than with any other code.
The tube in question has the Hungarian look about it, and it has slightly different holes in the plates - oval, rather than round, as seen on Philips style tubes.
Not all Tungram tubes had that little tag - and a lot of relabelled tubes did have that tag - I have a couple.
I will have more info next week - waiting for some to arrive.

[sub]

Tungsram was not originally Hungarian (unless you can relocate Tottenham) - it was a British company that decided to outsource before it was quickly taken over by Thorn and incorporated into Mullard. All the Tungsram designs are the same as the Philips designs - that is why they have a good rep.

Sorry, but is untrue!
Tungsram was always hungarian company!
Here is a little story:

http://www.tungsram.hu/tungsram/downloa ... 6-1996.pdf

[Dana-L]

hmm. i'm no expert but i think the one with the arrow in my photo is a tungsram 12ax7. hope this helps.

opps. it might be an rft now that i think about it. there are some tungsram 12ax7's in the photo somewhere. let me look some more.

I believe the tubes in the bottom left corner (with 'POS' visible in white lettering and the thick white mica) of your image are actually the Tungsrams. The flat getter supports (there are two on Tungsrams) look identical to one I have on my desk.

I love Tungsrams. Most of the ones I have are labeled both RCA and 'Made in Gt. Britain' though I believe they are actually Hungarian.

-Dana

[Dana-L]

Can someone confirm that this tube is or can be Tungsram ECC83/12AX7?

Hi Marino,

The tube in your pictures looks just like the Tungsram 12AX7/ECC83 tubes I have - dual flat getter supports, stamped metal tag, copper pins.

Some of the sweetest glass around, methinks.

How's it sound?

-Dana

[marino2005]

Well, its hard to say about the sound. It sounds good, definitely better than new 12AX7s like JJ or EH. I cant say in what way, this Tungsram sounds more complex, detailed and sweet.
Then again, mine is in single ended amp (12AX7 and 6V6), ala champ with more drive. Probably it has different flavor in an amp of different design. Plus its a NOS tube, I hear Tungsrams need a lot of hours to get THE sound.

Overall, I'm very satisfied.

Thanks for comments everyone!

[dotfret]

OK, sub - Tungsram was Hungarian from the start, but after a couple of intervening wars a lot of things get muddy - although the thing that convinces me to say sorry is that the box design was the same for both English and Hungarian products. I will go and stand in the corner with the Germans who think Siemens was always German, despite being founded in England 100 years ago. This does not detract from the fact that English Tungsram turned out ECC83, and bought in other ECC83 which they labelled as Tungsram. Hungarian Tungsram sold in GB would be marked Foreign or Made in Hungary.
Dana, it depends on the end market as to how the things are marked - if for sale in France, they might be marked Imported from ... (in french), but it is doubtful that anything marked Made in Great Britain was made anywhere else, although a lot of things marked Made In Great Britain were assembled here from foreign components - a lot of PCs were like that.

[sub]

but it is doubtful that anything marked Made in Great Britain was made anywhere else

Absolutely right! Made in Great Britain tube -> was made in Great Britain!
But for example: you pick up a Mitsubishi -> Made in UK
..but Mitsubishi is a japanese company even if was made anywhere else.
Do you see what i mean?
Sorry because of my lame explanation (my poor english )
.....and sorry if i'm sophist or something

[dotfret]

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but if you buy a Nissan car in Europe it was made in GB. Toshiba televisions mainly come from Wales. The Japanese do not go in for extra effort to re-invent the wheel. If it says Made in UK, why would they lie? I have Mullard tubes made in GB with the external manufacture mark on them - the codes tell me they were made by Ediswan/English Mazda, so it is no contradiction, although I have no records - I have other similar tubes that have similar codes and different labels. I have Tungsram tubes made in GB - no problem, factory existed. I have tubes marked Tungsram made in GB that are of other manufacture - no problem, Philips codes say made in GB. I have tubes with those tags that were not made in GB or Hungary - the codes do not make a lot of sense, but that is not relevant. I have tubes made in Hungary which do not have the tags, but carry the code 922-1182. We are peering through the past, and trying to put meaning into information that is cryptic. Unless we are dealing with the "Foreign" description, we must trust the origin declared on the tube, and try to reconcile that with the known data. Nothing else helps.

[Twister]

You can NEVER trust the Made In origin on an NOS tube. I would say that as much as 20% of NOS tubes have the wrong origin on the tube. The only way to surely know where a tube came from is to recognize the internal construction that was used at the different factories during the different eras.

[Dana-L]

but it is doubtful that anything marked Made in Great Britain was made anywhere else

Absolutely right! Made in Great Britain tube -> was made in Great Britain!

Curiously, none of the Tungsram tubes I possess (even those labeled 'Gt. Britain') have any factory code markings that I can find.

Did the genuine British Tungsrams have the stamped metal tag on one of the getter supports?

I also have some Trigon 12AX7's labeled 'London' on the boxes which have factory codes indicating they were made in India by Bharat Electronics, which reportedly was a supplier to Mullard in their waning days. For the record, they are fine sounding tubes. The http://www.tubemonger.com site has pictures of tubes labeled Trigon which are clearly the Tungsram designs.

Cheers,

-Dana

[dotfret]

I have an Ultron 12AX7 with a Bharat code - incidentally, "bee" in the Philips code list stands for Bharat Electrical and Electronic, and they still use the Beemat trade name on test equipment.

Back to Tungsram - here are some relevant 12AX7 I have found in my store: I have

a) some International Components 12AX7 marked Made in Hungary which look identical to the Tungsram we started the thread with.
b) a Sator 12AX7 which has a solid getter. The getter and its posts are cut and bent from a single stamping. It has grey ladder pattern plates which are pin welded with four pins each sides, and oval holes like the plates of [a], but no rectangular holes. It has a tag, stamped 40.
c) a Haltron ECC83, solid getter like , silver plates with ladder pattern and no holes - plates appear to be contact welded together, weld about 12 mm long. It has a tag, stamped 62.
d) Tungsram Made in England 12AX7/ECC83 - standard Philips design, Blackburn codes.

I know I have others, but I can't lay my hands on them right now.