New Sensor Mullard a Sovtek?

[bobbyr]

I thought I would try out the New Sensor Mullards and compare them to the original mullards in my amp.
First I need to explain, for some reason,I don't know why but Sovtek el84's won't work properly in my amp(WEM Dominator).There is very little volume and a harsh sound.
These New Sensor Mullards act the exact same way in my amp. I still had the Sovteks lying around so I dug them out to compare them with the new mullards,they were identical inside.
Are these just renamed Sovteks?

[zaphod_phil]

Probably. IIRC New Sensor and Sovtek are the both part of the same company.

[rjgtr]

They are made in the same factory. From rumour I've heard, the NS Mullard stuff is just tweaked EH/Sovtek designs. Pretty sad when you consider that real NOS Mullards are so great. The Groove Tubes stuff is pretty good at capturing the basic tone, but not the magic of NOS Mullards. There's this great body and clarity in the lower mids of a real Mullard that no modern tube has captured.

Then there's the NS Svetlanas. They just aren't as good as the Winged C (SED) tubes made in the real Svetlana factory. IMHO, REAL Svetlana EL34s (SED, Winged C) are about as close as you can get to a good NOS EL34 in current production, and in fact, I like them every bit as much as NOS Seimens. Great 6L6s too. I just wish they made a good 12ax7.

The NS TungSol 12ax7 (the only one I have experience with) is actually a different tube than usual Sovtek/EH tubes. The plate structure is different and it doesn't have that cloudy midrange thing most NS tubes do. It's a nice sounding tube. I have heard the other NS TungSol tubes a re pretty decent too.

[bobbyr]

Looks to me like a gimmick, they put the Mullard name on a Sovtek and overcharge for it. It won't be long before they turn up on ebay as NOS.

[BBQLS1]

Here's a couple of pics from right to left: Tung Sol 12AX7A, Sovtek 12AX7WA, Reissue Mullard 12AX7






My real mullard is in an amp and not accessable to me at the moment. I've compared the real mullard to the Tung Sol and the reissue and it looks most like the Tung Sol. The plate heights are close, but the real mullard had three ribs in the plate while the Tung Sol has two. The reissue mullard has three ribs, but the plates are longer. The top and bottom plates between the Tung Sol and the Sovtek are similar, but the actual plates in the sovtek are way shorter and the little pins on top of the actual plates go through the top plate in the Tung Sol, but not the Sovtek.

IMO, They are all different. The reissue is brighter and more aggressive sounding and the Tung Sol sounds the most like my real Mullard.

[bobbyr]

Does anyone know why the Sovteks or new Mullards won't work in my amp? Does the original Mullards cope with a higher voltage better?
NOS Mullards are getting too expensive now, and although they are my favourite tube, sooner or later i'm going to have to try something else.

[greaser_au]

A pic from what I have lying around (just for comparison)...
L-R:
British made Mazda ECC83 (old),
Australian made AWV 12AX7 (nos).
Russian made Sovtek 12AX7LPS (new)
Russian made ElectroHarmonix 12AX7EH (new)


david

[BBQLS1]

Does anyone know why the Sovteks or new Mullards won't work in my amp? Does the original Mullards cope with a higher voltage better?
NOS Mullards are getting too expensive now, and although they are my favourite tube, sooner or later i'm going to have to try something else.

Does it happen with any other brands? Do you have a layout? Voltages with the ri mullards?

[bobbyr]

I have only tried Sovtek and the New Sensor Mullard. The WEM layout is near enough the same as the Marshall 18 watt.(did Marshall copy Charlie Watkins amps?) Is there some way of lowering the voltage going through the valves.

[dartanion]

It sounds like a bad tube or something else is wrong with your amp.

I just got a bunch of NS Tung Sol and Mullard 12AX7s, Mullard EL84, Sovtek EL84M, and some other tubes. Have been trying them out briefly and so far very satisfied. They have come a long way in that they have started to do 24 hr. burn in on their power tubes before matching. It'd be nice if they did a burn in on their preamp tubes before final QC.

I do prefer NOS, but not all clients are willing to shell out that kind of cash.

[Ro0st]

Does anyone know why the Sovteks or new Mullards won't work in my amp?

Have a look to see if the Dominator is wired with the i/p (grid) connection to pin 1 of the EL84s bases instead of pin 2... These are normally connected with an internal connection within the valve so it doesnt matter, but maybe an issue with your new valves ?

did Marshall copy Charlie Watkins amps?

I believe we CAN thank Mr Watkins for the Original 18watt design..

[zaphod_phil]

If it's a Mk III Dominator, then it's somewhat different from the Marshall 18W. Earlier Dominators are almost exactly the same as the Marshall, and clearly where the 18W design came from.

[bobbyr]

Any suggestions on the best el84 available-not NOS

[rjgtr]

bobbyr,

The two I really like, that I have actually used, are the Ei and the JJ brands. The JJ seems to be reliable and has a good sound, as does the Ei. The JJ is generally more available, but of the two I think the Ei has just a bit more attitude. Although I find the Ei 12ax7/ECC83s to be iffy for microphonics in guitar amps, the output tubes have been very stable and reliable.

I don't really like the Sovtek EL84s tonewise, but they are ultra reliable.

I haven't heard the Ruby (Chinese) EL84s, TAD (chinese) EL84s or the NS Mullards. The TAD 6L6Strs are very good sounding, so the EL84 is probably pretty good too.

[bobbyr]

I am no expert on amp's but I suspect that the DominatorIII must put out more power than some modern valves can handle. Could this be possible?

[dk123123dk]

why havnt they just actually reproduced an exact copy of an older mullard. anything else seems like trickery to me. I think the tungsol reissue 12ax7's are pretty darn good though. Still not NOS quality, but the sounds are very good. If they have the rights to the names, why can't new sensor actually reproduce a great reproduction mullard?



dk

[Merlinb]

Does anyone know why the Sovteks or new Mullards won't work in my amp? Does the original Mullards cope with a higher voltage better?
NOS Mullards are getting too expensive now, and although they are my favourite tube, sooner or later i'm going to have to try something else.

It's true that the screen voltage in the 18Watt and its brothers is pretty high, and will kill EL84s quicker than most, but I haven't noticed Mullards being any more reliable- they go the same way eventually, just like new production.

[methusalem]

why havnt they just actually reproduced an exact copy of an older mullard. anything else seems like trickery to me. I think the tungsol reissue 12ax7's are pretty darn good though. Still not NOS quality, but the sounds are very good. If they have the rights to the names, why can't new sensor actually reproduce a great reproduction mullard?



dk

I read somewhere that they can't because they don't have the exact machinery used anymore. Also, before the WWs, higher grade materials were used than now.
Due to MASSIVE inflation after the World Wars, there is not point for the manufacturer, because tubes of that standard would be sooo expensive to produce, and who'd pay between 100 and 200 bucks for a single preamp tube? Not a lot of people. After all, they want to make profit. *sigh* yeah, I know, today's world sucks.
Please correct me guys if I said something wrong in here.

[rjgtr]

They could get a lot closer to the originals than what they are selling. The Groove Tubes Mullard style tubes (12ax7s and EL34s) have very close to the same internal structure and sound fairly close to the originals they are copying. Of course they aren't using exactly the same materials and techniques so they don't have exactly the same tone.

Also Real Svetlanas (marketed in the USA as Winged C or SED) are also pretty close to the original Mullard EL34s. So it can be done.

While I think the NS TungSol 12ax7s are very nice new production tubes, New Sensor's past indicates that they will take a trademark and basically put anything out with that label. Their history with the Svetlana name, while legal, is fairly close to deception.

[drhulsey]

After all, they want to make profit. *sigh* yeah, I know, today's world sucks.

Don't forget that EVERYBODY needs and wants to make a profit. That's what pays for shoes, groceries, etc. The biggest cut out of profit for those who make a lot of it is for personnel, i.e. wages. But that is the wage earner's profit. Good will is a great thing, but Kroger won't trade me a cart full of groceries for it. As Will Durant said, and I paraphrase, no culture in the history of man has sustained productivity without incentive, i.e. profit. We'll get better tubes if we buy lots of them or are willing to pay more for each one. We get better amplifiers if we're willing to pay for them, or better yet, BUILD THEM OURSELVES